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Inner Purpose Podcast
For experienced professionals who think ten steps ahead and are ready for what's next in their work. I help you get clear on it, bring it forward, and make it your own, with purpose – as someone who understands how you think.
Inner Purpose Podcast
Breaking Free: Healing from Narcissistic Relationships and Cultivating Self-Love with Emma Walsh
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Ever wondered how a former tractor driver became an empowering relationship coach? Meet Emma Walsh, who shares her incredible journey from the fields of agriculture to the trenches of personal transformation. Emma specializes in helping women heal from the traumas of narcissistic relationships, and in this episode, she opens up about her own tumultuous experiences and the generational healing that comes from breaking free from harmful patterns.
Throughout our conversation, Emma and I explore the profound insights that come from understanding the true nature of love and attachment. We challenge the high-drama versions of relationships often mistaken for passion, advocating for the stability and calm that signify genuine love. Emma's candid revelations about her anxiously attached nature and her struggles with validation provide a powerful narrative of overcoming insecurities and fostering self-awareness. Together, we emphasize the importance of breaking generational cycles of limiting beliefs, highlighting the joy of seeing others grow through their personal journey.
Emma also dives into the transformative power of self-validation, sharing how she overcame self-doubt and the toxic influences that once controlled her life. We discuss the exhilarating yet lonely path of entrepreneurship and the profound impact of finding purpose and creating a lasting legacy. This episode is a heartfelt invitation to embrace your own healing journey, cultivate self-love, and unlock the limitless possibilities that life offers. Don't miss Emma's insights on healing, growth, and the ripple effect of positive change.
Connect with Emma:
- Instagram: @ejwalsh_relationshipcoach
- Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/thewarriorhubwomenhealingaftertoxicrelationships/
- Website: www.emmajwalsh.com
CONNECT WITH MICHELLE:
- Instagram @michelledowker_wellbalance
- Facebook @michelledowkerwellbalance
- Email michelle@michelledowker.com
FREE:
Name your real gifts & start aligning your work with who you actually are now. https://michelledowker.thrivecart.com/chart-your-power/
SELF-STUDY:
Clarify who your work is truly designed to serve - and how to attract more of the people who bring out your best work. https://michelledowker.thrivecart.com/resonant-clients-kit/
WORK WITH MICHELLE:
Disclaimer:
This podcast is for informational & inspirational purposes only. Nothing shared is intended as medical, psychological, or personalized advice, and should not be used as a substitute for professional support.
Healing From Narcissistic Relationships
Speaker 1Today I have a juicy and deep episode to share with you .
Speaker 1I had a conversation today with Emma Walsh .
Speaker 1Emma is a relationship coach , helping women overcome the trauma of past relationships , break down insecurities and empower them to glow up so that she can live a life on her terms , and we got into all things about relationships , especially narcissistic relationships , and healing from them , and we got into all the details about how she pivoted from being a tractor driver working in agriculture to making a complete 180 pivot into becoming the relationship coach that she is today , helping women heal and create a generational ripple effect for their entire lineage .
Speaker 1There is so much amazing juiciness that we discussed today that I hope will give you some insights , whether you are looking at relationship healing healing from narcissistic caregivers or if you are looking at wanting to know more about how to truly find your purpose , follow your purpose and make the shifts in order to be doing the most purposeful work that lights you up while making the biggest impact in the world . So I hope that you enjoy today's conversation . I would love to know , emma , what is your story ? How did you come to be doing the work that you do today ? Tell me a little bit about that story .
Speaker 2Well , firstly I just want to say thank you so so much for having me here . You know I couldn't be more excited . I've been buzzed about this all week . So that is a great first question . And you know it was a long , a long journey , but I I didn't know what was going on and I think until I experienced it you know I were , I was in relationships , several relationships , that continued to fail .
Speaker 2You know these relationships , you know my first real relationship included a lot of controlling , a lot of at the time I didn't realize it but very much like gaslighting techniques of you know , major meltdowns and then gifts or being taken out for dinner . So you kind of feel like , oh , is this a me problem Because they're being so nice , and at that , that age I didn't understand what it was . And then I continued in relationships like that and then the final relationship I suppose I could call it the wake up , the wake up relationship . I spent five years back and forth with a very narcissistic man and three of those years there was another young lady involved which I didn't actually know about for probably well over a good year . Um , I was working away and when he first started to see her I felt like we were in a really good place . You know , prior to that , okay , he had been very , very distant . It was very much keep me at arm's length . You know it was on his terms all the time and I just kept going in with . You know , I know this isn't quite right , this doesn't seem normal , it really upsets me , but he will change . This is just . He's got commitment issues and he's been hurt in the past and I almost made up all these excuses just purely because , more than anything , I just wanted to be loved , you know , and and receive love in a way that I was always given it , of cooking and cleaning for people and giving this consistent wanting to be there . And , of course , the more this person pulled away , the harder I tried to pull in , and I didn't know about narcissists by this point , and it wasn't until I then found out about this young lady and and I he said to me and I quote this when I found out , you and I were not going anywhere and that was it . There was no kind of real ex . So of course I straight away felt like this was all my fault . You know what have I done ? And it's another failed relationship and why can't I just be loved ?
Speaker 2But what really set the confusion off was the him continuing to stay in contact . You know , he continued to . I don't want to say pester me , but no matter how many times I'd ask him to leave me alone , he would continue to to just create random conversation of , oh I just want to see how you are , and you know , and just start talking about anything and everything , which was a lot of confusion . And of course that just made me think , oh , this man is obviously still interested in me , otherwise he wouldn't still be talking to me , he wouldn't want to have intimate interactions with me . Why would you do that ?
Speaker 2I suppose in my world I didn't see it as something you know , I saw that as what someone does when they love you , and that's what he told me before I found out about this young lady , that he was in love with me , and I then went to a relationship coach who specialized in , you know , sort of lack of , you know , confidence , lack of self-worth , and I was like that's me , I don't feel like I'm worthy , I don't feel like I'm lovable To which I then learned about this whole new world of anxiously attached people avoidant narcissistic and inner childhood traumas , which I then learned that actually growing up I had a narcissistic mum myself and you know I didn't know about that .
Speaker 2I learned about the avoidant and anxiously attached dance and how narcissists and empaths , you know , although they fall under anxiously attached people , fall very much in with like an empath category as such . You know how that is a strong dance and avoidance being very similar to narcissists and and having that bad name , but narcissists are like a whole new level up . It was a whole new world that I came into . I loved . I loved 90% of my healing journey . Don't get right , I didn't love all of it .
Speaker 2It wasn't easy at times and it's not anybody says no , no , and I think anybody that comes in and says you know what you're gonna hear and it's gonna be so easy , is so . It's such a bad misconception to have and you know , I talk about it all with my friends of what I was doing and then they go oh , I'm struggling with that and I'd help them , and it would just fill me with like this warm , buzzy , excited glow and I could just feel myself like I actually finally felt , like I blossomed in my life , which is something I hadn't experienced before . And through doing this healing work , I became almost it was an obsession . I became obsessed with the nervous system and attachment and you know narcissists in general and how they work , and then I started to see it so crystal clear in my mum which I think was probably really scary , and how she worked with her tactics on my dad and us as children and I was able to take that and actually finally be able to step back from my childhood which was a big thing for me and see that this was no longer and my failed relationship , this was no longer a story of who I am as a person , but just the environments that I've been in and that actually these are lessons that now put me into a situation where I'm in a really loving , healthy relationship , and it wasn't easy
Awakening and Self-Discovery Through Relationships
Speaker 2, you know . I went into that and I had to learn that feeling calm and feeling like there wasn't a spark or there wasn't a passion isn't actually true . It just means I'm in a really calm relationship and my nervous system's really calm and it's loving and this actually is what love is .
Speaker 2You know , I had such a distorted kind of reality of what love is to then go into something that is loving and I mean we're now looking to build our first home together , so we're obviously doing all right , but it was really exciting to actually , when I look back and saw my own transformation and then be able to help friends through it , and I thought this is what gets me excited , this is what fills me with warmth and genuine warmth . And you know thrills and I know that sounds bizarre saying the word thrills about this kind of work , but to see someone come to you in a place where they they don't essentially like themselves and and knowing how that felt to be in that situation of looking in the mirror and almost feeling disgusted about who you are and not knowing where your life's going and constantly blaming yourself to being able to step into this whole new empowering like flower , and it is literally just like watching someone flower out of this , this soil that's been contaminated for so long , and just blossom time and time again . Like that is .
Speaker 2You know , it's such a gorgeous experience to have and every time I think , whenever I come to the end of a client , it's always , always sad to see someone go , but you're so proud of them and who they are now , and it's like no amount of money in the world could ever pay for that priceless feeling of watching someone feel good about themselves . And you know , I don't think we have , especially with social media and stuff . Now there is never enough of that true empowerment on the other side . Now there is never enough of that true empowerment on the other side . So to watch it firsthand is always , it's always a blessing , you know , and it's an honor every time . Sorry , I kind of got off at a tandem . There you're speaking my language .
Speaker 1I can . I relate to all of that and yeah , it sounds like you kind of you awakened .
Speaker 2Yeah to something that was going on , Sorry go ahead .
Speaker 2No , sorry , and I think even you know learning about my attachment , especially more than anything , and having that anxious attachment and understanding where it comes from , because I've always . You know , I have an older brother . He is very clever , he is very smart and I love him dearly and we're very close now but we have very two different versions of our childhood . It's so interesting to see now how we operate in relationships and I always felt like the black sheep of the family because my brother got in a relationship . He stayed in that permanent relationship .
Speaker 2I had failed relationship after failed relationship and I felt very lost all the time . You know , I went into an agricultural job , thinking that that's where I wanted to be , and when I was at my height of that job , I was actually so unhappy . You know , I suffered with a lot of anxiety . I suffered with a lot of depression . I always felt like I was actually so unhappy . You know , I suffered with a lot of anxiety . I suffered with a lot of depression . I always felt like I was having to push myself to my wits end to prove that I was worthy to be there and , I think , to then have this awakening and , like you know what that for something I felt that was my purpose , wasn't my purpose at . I was just always looking for validation , but in the wrong aspect . And I think as well that job was used as a example in my relationships as to why I wasn't this great person to be with . And you know , it created that resentment and I thought , actually , you know what ? This is no longer a environment that it gets me excited . Actually , it's making me quite ill . And yes , I'm good at it and yes , it's a fantastic industry with a lot of strong people , but at the same time , it's not getting me thrilled , it's not getting me excited anymore .
Speaker 2And to then sit back and look at how my parent , as a mum , she , she didn't push me to to do that job , even though it was something that I wanted to do .
Speaker 2It was very much that was a boy's job and you know you shouldn't be doing that . You won't be successful in that . And when I then looked at my own patterns in what you know , when I started even into coaching , it was like , oh , I won't be very good at that and I thought you sound just like your mother . And that was when I thought , no , no , this is where actually it needs to stop , and I think the really exciting bit is that actually is being able to become aware that I'm starting to sound like my mum and knowing that I can put a stop to that so I don't have to pass that on to my children . And that is also another thing , like when I speak to these women that I work with , that they then go . I say , like you don't have to pass this on to your kids , and it creates that ripple effect from up here down and I don't know what your thoughts are on that .
Speaker 1Yeah , one thing that really stood out from what you just said . So you were in a job that you thought would be fulfilling , but once you got into it , it wasn't the fulfillment that you thought it was going to be , because A you were seeking something outside of yourself to feel better from within yourself , and it sounds like you kind of realized that that wasn't kind of giving you what you thought it would yeah , a hundred percent .
Speaker 2I think I grew up in an environment where , whatever I did , it was never enough to be as good as what my brother did , so it was almost like I had to be in in my eyes as a child . It was like I had to be better than him in order to receive love , and that almost seemed impossible . So I then went into an industry where you really had to prove yourself in order to receive praise and at the time it was like , yeah , I'm looking for all of this validation . And it didn't fill me with good feelings , you know . It continued to fill me with worry that I wasn't doing a very good job . It filled me with fear that I was going to get the boot because I didn't do this or this happened .
Empowerment Through Self-Validation
Speaker 2But when it actually came down to my healing , the most fulfillment I got was when I I gave that validation to myself and was like , actually , you know what you are good at this and and even now is is being able to sit there and go . Actually , you know what ? Like you can fill your own cup and then give back to others , like I think that's been the biggest thing for me is that I can fill my own cup with my own love and not need it from outside sources , and then I can pour that into other people's cups and that is a big thing . And I see you smiling and nodding . I presume you kind of love that and agree with that yourself .
Speaker 1You know , in speaking of that this is something that I often teach my clients is when you find that power within yourself and that validation and you find your own power within yourself instead of seeking it outwards , it changes the dynamics of everything that you're doing , including your work .
Speaker 1So , instead of doing work to try to get validation and get a sense of value from , like , what it is that you're doing , that leads to burnout , right . That leads to the physical symptoms and the exhaustion and the draining and the resentment and the frustration , because it's never enough . Like you said Versus , when you do this inner work to find that power within yourself , then you end up in this flow state of overflow , right , kind of like you're overflowing and you can't help but share that with others because you're just brimming with it . And when you go approach your work from that place , then you don't burn out . Instead , you feel energized by it . That totally changes the dynamics of everything , even if you don't burn out . Instead , you feel energized by it . That totally changes the dynamics of everything , even if you don't change the work that you're even doing .
Speaker 2Yeah , I think as well . And you , all of a sudden , you've gone from doing something with , like you say , that resentment and that frustration , and then you go into it with that love and that passion and it's like you see the energy come through in what you're doing and it reflects off and radiates out into other people and they pick up onto that and then it's just like consistent mirroring , isn't it ? And and that that is exciting . And , like you say , it never , never seems like a job then , and I think you take so much more pride and love into what you do and you become once again and it refills that cup again because you're then proud of what you've produced and you know , like , say it's like a consistent cycle of , like you say , empty out , reflow and , and I think that is pleasurable state to be in and it's a much happier .
Speaker 2You know , and like say , productivity wise and everything like that is so much more exciting and when you can give that to other people , it makes and this sounds bizarre , but it makes everything that has happened such a much more grateful lesson , because it's like you know what ? Like okay , that was hard , but that now is the driving force to make this so like much better . You know and lead that chapter there , but take all the lessons from it and and turn them in from that anger , that resentment , that that hurt , that pain into love , guidance , passion , kindness , empowerment and warmth , and know you can't ever hand that to someone . They have to kind of feel that .
Speaker 1Yes , oh my goodness . Yes , let me know what you think about this concept . Sometimes we'll go into a job , a helping role job to help other people , to validate us or to help maybe reduce the level of suffering in the world , so we don't feel it especially as empaths or highly sensitive people . Have you had that experience where maybe you noticed that you were in this wanting to help people role because you wanted to get validation or make people feel better , versus what you're doing now from this empowered place ?
Speaker 2yeah , 100% . I mean the I . When I came off machines I went into a grain marketing job and when I went into the role I went into it with the headspace of you know what ? I'm going to help so many farmers make their farm better . You know they're gonna make more money , and it was . I was still in that place of that validation of wanting them to go . Oh , wow , you've , you've come off machines and now you're doing this and , oh , thank you so much .
Speaker 2And it wasn't like I was still able to do it from that place of empowerment , because now it's very much like I'm a , as much as I help people and guide them . There is a lot more of a lesson to learn when you've discovered it on your own and when you've got someone there that is holding your hand enough that you feel loved and you feel safe but you're not being told what answer you should and shouldn't have . It's a lot more of a meaningful find and it holds so much more space within someone , whereas when I was doing it from a place of support me and give me that you know I'm taking rather than giving it out , and it doesn't give that love and that heart behind it . It gives , like I say , more of a money take and a grab still , and I still didn't find that fulfillment . I still didn't find that , you know , that overflow . It was literally just like a dead end , sour stop and it was almost like nothing that I was being told was good enough . I still didn't believe in what I was doing in the grey marketing . I still didn't believe that I was a good marketer , no matter how many times people told me .
Speaker 2But when I'm doing it from a place of validating myself and then giving it out , it's like , well , actually , no , I know that I'm good at what I do and I know that I can be a safe space for you and I don't need you to tell me that this is my time to give that to you and it also allows me to listen a lot better . You know , and I and I , you you hold that space and that presence a lot more , in a softer way , whereas when I'm like grabbing for validation , you feel tense all the time and it is you're like a child holding on to your mum's trousers and you don't want to let go of that because you're not receiving that calmness to let go , whereas , yeah , when you can then hold that space for someone else . They can let go when they're ready and it creates a much more powerful session . I don't know if you agree with that .
Speaker 1Absolutely Well . Here's the thing . There's actually science behind that right . When your nervous system is calm , when you have coherence and low heart rate variability that actually mirrors , you can actually hold that safer space for someone . There's electromagnetic frequencies even impacting the other person . So it's not just about what you're saying , but just how you're being and it sounds like for you there was this journey and I see this a lot and I've gone through this myself is you know , before you had this awakening , there's likely a lot of stress and chaos . And then , when you have this awakening and you start to learn how to regulate your nervous system , and then maybe when you enter a stable and calm relationship , then it can feel really uncomfortable at the beginning because it's not familiar .
Speaker 2Yeah , 100% , and it almost it feels like you haven't healed or you haven't progressed , because it's just like you . Almost suddenly , you know and I remember questioning it I was like , am I numb to this ? You know what's wrong with me ? And I remember this clearly . I was in the gym one day and I ended up crying and thinking I'm never going to be happy because I wasn't feeling this butterfly spark and ultimately I didn't understand at the time , although I was learning about nervous systems , you know , I think I still , at the time , remember thinking that you should feel those butterflies consistently when you're with someone . And it was that learning that and that understanding that actually this is just really healthy , you're not triggered .
Speaker 2And I had to take what I was feeling and sit with it , you know , and sit with the emotions and sit with the thoughts that were coming up and and go well , hang on a minute . How much of this is true . And you know , how is Harry , my partner ? How is he actually treating me , you know ? And when I sat and looked , I thought he's actually treating me in every way . I've always asked for and I've always desired and I've always wanted and I've always dreamed about , and it was like , oh well , why are you not reacting to that ? And when I sat and continued to hold that space within myself of like you don't have to work this out immediately , like take your time with this and it's okay to feel that way and not punish myself for it , you know , I stopped punishing myself . I was finally able to see that actually I felt at peace , you know , and I felt calm and I felt loved and I felt safe , which was a big thing . I hadn't felt safe with someone for so long and I was so independent and it was so overwhelming , to be fair , to understand that actually I am safe and it is safe to talk about my emotions and it , you know . And I was able to then actually communicate this with Harry without thinking , oh my god , he's gonna think that I'm , I've gone mad or something . And he was then able to hold that space and all it did was deepen the connection that we have together and and it was just those kind of those oh my god moments and making essentially the choice to sit , with that discomfort that I didn't have any discomfort , you know , because it was like it was .
Speaker 2It was uncomfortable not to have the discomfort and the butterflies and the so-called sparks and the so-called passion , and sit with that and actually listen , listen to it . You know , I think we I'd seen it time and time again about listening to our thoughts and listening to our feelings , but I'd never seen anything about listening when nothing's so much there and challenging it what's not there as such when it comes to our feelings and our nervous systems . Because I hadn't had that experience before and it was nice to just sit and listen and not think , oh god , what's , what's gonna go wrong next or what's gonna do this , and it was nice to sit and actually listen and and go , no , you're just for the first time probably in your life now you're calming in a relationship and that's okay , like , enjoy it and embrace it and get excited for it . And it was like this bubbling little child was actually suddenly starting to enjoy and dance and laugh and giggle and it was like , yeah , I'd suddenly woken up all over again and it's just these small things that just continue to reignite that spark that doesn't go out .
Speaker 2You know , and I feel that Harry and I we , we consistently like live in this honeymoon period because we are able to hold that space and that curiosity for each other and be able to approach each other with that curiosity of why are you doing this instead of what are you doing ? As such , you know and understand each other's own traumas and talk to each other about it and let's say , you know , like you just said , hold that calmness and that space back and forth so that he's at peace and I'm at peace and we can feel when someone's not quite there and I can feel it quite a bit when , if he's off , we can pick up on that and because of being and I think , being able to sit through that , I can help him sit with it . You know , and I can hold and sit that space for him when he's struggling to do that . And yeah , and sometimes that's all we need .
Speaker 1We don't always need someone to give us the answers , we just need someone to hold that space when we physically can't absolutely , and that's the thing right , especially with this human experience of actually sitting with the things that feel uncomfortable and , like you said , being able to hold space , even if you don't
The Journey of Self-Healing and Growth
Speaker 1. Sometimes providing the solution isn't the answer . It's about just holding that space so that the other person can move through it and out the other side , instead of being stuck in the cycle or suppressing it or avoiding it . And then the other point that you mentioned was sometimes it's about sitting with , but why am I not feeling this ? Why am I not feeling the butterflies ?
Speaker 2yeah , I think and it's not something you isn't , and I think we always see on social media you should sit with your thoughts and no one ever says sit with what's not there as such and sitting with . Why am I not feeling this ? And and actually knowing that we're not broken , we don't need to be fixed as such as is ? You know we're not broken people , we don't need to be fixed as such is is you know , we're not broken people , we don't need to be fixed .
Speaker 2So , to be able to approach ourselves with that curiosity of why am I doing this rather than I need to fix this , because I think when we apply I need to fix this , it implies a harshness on us rather than giving ourself that space again and that kindness and that love , and that creates tension and it creates stress , whereas when we can say , okay , well , why am I doing this ? What needs me right now ? To listen , suddenly we can relax into it and we can allow these things to come forward because they feel safe to do so . You know it's like you're not going to talk to someone that says , well , why are you doing that's like you're not going to talk to someone that says , well , why are you doing that , are you ? You know you're going to talk to someone that goes , do you want to talk about that ? Like what's going on for you and low is their tone and low is their voice and and allows you to come into that space .
Speaker 1I know that this journey is not an easy journey to embark on . Right this inner healing journey and the awakening and the growth , and you've taken it , you're on it and now you're leading other people through it .
Speaker 2Yeah , I think it's always really .
Speaker 2I think and this is my personal opinion here , so you know , if you I'd love to know your opinion on it as well You're never truly fully healed . You know and I think that's a concept we go into this healing of oh , I'm going to do a year and you know I'm going to be healed , I'm going to be this whole new person , but we're never truly fully healed because we can't experience every single situation that triggers us . But I think what is really gorgeous about it is , as you're growing and you're having this more self-awareness and you're creating this kind of self-compassion , your healing journey gets easier . Your healing journey gets easier and it gets more foundational and more loving . And , yeah , it is overwhelming and there is moments where you think , oh , wow , like I have come from here to here and I'm proud of myself . It's overwhelming , but it is gorgeous . You know there is no other way that I ever know how to explain it it is a loving , a really loving process . You know , I'd love to hear your opinion on that so you're absolutely right , it's a .
Speaker 1It's a . It's not about a destination , right , it's a journey that's ongoing for the rest of your life , because there's always going to be . You know , knowledge is , knowledge is consciousness is infinite . And my belief is this healing is expanding ourselves to match consciousness , but we'll never fully match it because it is infinite and ever growing and expanding .
Speaker 1And I like to kind of use the analogy of like layers of an onion . Right , when you're healing , you take off a layer of the onion and you look at it and you sit with it and you heal it and you integrate it . And as you continue , there's going to be new perspectives and new layers to look at with every step in your growth and evolution . And it's almost like the lessons that you learn . You need to have that growth to be able to see that next layer of lessons . And then you work through that next layer of lessons and you need to have that growth in order to see and unlock that next layer of lessons . And it's funny that you say this because I have had conversations with lots of people who they think that they just need to embark on this inner healing journey . And it should just be . You know , take a couple months , and then , well , why haven't I gotten there yet ? What you mean , there's more . Oh my goodness .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , you're not wrong and and it's it's like yeah , you okay heal something around relationships or around work , but the work is consistent . It's not something that that and I think this is something that a lot of people don't don't realize they go yeah , I want to heal , I want to do this , but it's not just as easy as having a conversation is . It is very much . It becomes your own passion and your own habits and your own and it is . It is a fine-tune act of self-love that you do spend , you know , a morning doing a mindset routine for half an hour , or you do some affirmations , or you start to notice what it is , you know , if a bird flew past your window that you , you loved , and it made a noise that helped you feel calm and having that gratitude for that , and it's cultivating that and actually you end up doing it every day without realizing and that is then put out into the universe and it creates that ever-expanding , they say , effect that brings it back in closer to you . So when you can start noticing these things and bringing that more to your awareness , suddenly you've gone from this place of I'm really struggling to heal to oh , wow , life's actually really good and it's beautiful and it's colorful and it's calm and it's peaceful .
Speaker 2But it takes consistent work and , like you say , self-awareness , and you know that , awareness of not just what your thoughts are , but actually when they are coming along and what events are triggering them to , and being consistent with that and not just giving up when your brain's going . Well , I can't do that . It's going , you know , and I saw a quote today that said we will stay in our pain because it is too hard to change . And you know , and I think that's very true , we , we , we will stay in our pain because that's comfortable and that's what we know , and our brains will do that and and that's , you know , with the neurological pathways , it's very normal to do that . But it that's , you know , with the neurological pathways , it's very normal to do that . But it's about going . You know what I'm going to break that change and I'm going to keep at this , no matter how hard it gets , and actually it'll get easier . It's got to get harder before it gets easier .
Speaker 1Yeah , and that's the thing . Right is . It's almost like the pain of staying the same has to get so difficult for some people that they're willing now to embark on the discomfort of the new and the unfamiliar .
Speaker 2Yeah , 100 percent , and I really resonate with that , because I had to go through that five year relationship to be like this . This is really hard and this is not what I want forever . And if I didn't have that , I wouldn't be , like you say , blooming now and being that bud that blooms , and I do strongly believe everything happens for a reason . But I also believe when something is not ignored , you are pushed to acknowledge it . You know , and you'll continue to be pushed into harder and harder situations until you acknowledge it . You know . How do you feel about that ?
Speaker 1absolutely . I tend to kind of say that at first you'll get like little whispers and nudges . That's how your intuition speaks . I believe is through kind whispers and nudges . And if , over time you ignore those whispers and nudges , and if over time you ignore those whispers and nudges , you don't believe them , you don't listen to them . Your intellect is taking over . Eventually the universe will start to hit you over the head with a baseball bat .
Speaker 2That is so very , very true . I like that . That's quite funny . It's a nice way to put on it . Don't ignore what your body's trying to say to you .
Speaker 1Yeah , and I mean for you , it sounds like I'd love to touch on this from both this relationship aspect that you've had , that after a period of time like it , you just couldn't ignore the red flags and the intuition anymore . And then there was also this shift that you made in your career and you went from , you know , being in this position where you were feeling unfulfilled and you were physically feeling the repercussions of working a job that didn't feel aligned anymore and you ended up making a huge pivot to doing completely different work . I mean , how was that for you in terms of ? I'd love if you , if you would like to touch on that , because this podcast is about following your purpose and your inner purpose , I'm sure that wasn't an easy avenue to think about making this change . I mean , what , what feelings and emotions and thoughts came through to you as you were making this pivot in your career ?
Speaker 2Definitely ones that I thought I'd
Overcoming Self-Doubt in Transformation
Speaker 2handled . You know and I know that sounds bizarre when I was in that narcissistic relationship , I actually ended up staying with him while I was doing a big chunk of this work and it was like , and we had a time zone there of no contact and I thought , yeah , you know , I've nailed this and I'm good to go , and it was like they went we're just gonna bring him back in so you can really see how you got on and you know , and it it showed me that actually I still had a lot of stuff to do . And when I finally left for good , I thought you know what , like I've nailed this , I'm not good enough , because that was a really strong belief for me and you know this fact that I'm not lovable . And I nailed all these things . And when I decided this you know , learning about CBT therapy because that was the first thing that I did , because I could still do that in line with my job it excited me so much . And then I started to learn about them and , although I was really , really excited , when I then started to go into relationship coaching , the the thought of , oh , you're not good enough to do this came back up and it was like , okay , well , where is this being addressed now ? And although I'd established it in my relationship , you know , you know I say to Harry we joke and say , oh , you're so lucky and we do . And it is just a joke . We know that we deserve to be together . We've both done the work to be there , but at the same time I know that I'm good enough . So if he was to go and do , god forbid , and he wouldn't , I know that , you know I'm good enough , so you can leave .
Speaker 2In the relationship aspect , I knew that . But when it came to business and a job , it was like you're not good enough to do this , you know , and you haven't had a hard enough story to help women transform and you haven't been through enough . And story to help women transform and you haven't been through enough . And it was like suddenly I started to punish myself all over again and I struggled to sleep for quite a few amount of weeks . I struggled with a lot of overwhelm and stress and I then didn't want to go and it was like , well , okay , well , where is this all coming from ? And there was a lot of self-doubt around not being good enough , and it was being able to go . Well , hang on , why did you want to do this in the first place , you know ? And what is it that was exciting , you ? And where is this not good enough coming from ?
Speaker 2And it did come back to my mum always putting me down whenever I got a job or I went and sat on one of the biggest machines in the world . It was still not as good as my brother or , at the time then , my stepbrother , and it was like god . And then I realized she's not a part of my life anymore . For these reasons , you know and it's not that I dislike her , it's not that I , you know , have negative feelings for her , but at the same time , I acknowledge that , regardless , whether she's family or not , she brings that , you know , rumble into my life . That disturbs my peace and I don't need that . You know , I care about myself and this sounds very selfish . I care about myself too much and my own peace and my own growth to allow someone who's not willing to work on themselves to disrupt that . And that made me quite strong and think you know what she ? Well , she's not here . You know , this is about you now and you haven't been through all of this stuff to not put that to a good use .
Speaker 2And I am very fortunate . Harry believes in me untold amounts and he'll tell me that every day that it will work well and you'll be fine . But yeah , it was definitely . It definitely showed up to me that although a belief can be healed in one aspect , it can also still come up in another aspect and it it was very daunting and it is , you know , and even now at times it's still very scary . You know , I'm sort of gearing up to launch a group program in a few months and it's like , oh wow , I am doing this . And it is a bit of a step back .
Speaker 2When you think I was a tractor driver three years ago and now I'm a relationship coach . It is a entirely different career , pivot . But I feel safe in my home and I love being at home . I feel safe in myself . And when you think tractor driving is a very lonely job working at home , I know I speak to people all day but it's also a very lonely job . But I find a lot of more comfort now in being alone and you know , that brings me peace and it brings me joy . And as much as I love spending time with people .
Speaker 2I also love my own comfort and it was those kind of realizations and understanding that I'd gone from a place where I spent many , many days very upset and crying and , you know , sometimes not wanting to eat for days on end , to a place where I actually feel really good at the end of a busy day , you know , and I actually feel really good at the end of a session and I feel full with with love , with passion , with spark , and it's like that was what continues to hold when I struggle , you know , because sometimes the feeling of not being good enough it does still come in when you know a client comes forward with something . I personally have an experience and it's like can I help this person through it ? And it's like , just hold that space for them . And and I do believe that actually , if you can hold a space for someone , they will guide you because you can listen more actively and allow them to have that space and they'll guide you actually to where they need to be , without realizing it . And it was being able to find that sense of peace and that calm . And when you speak to people and they go , you know I've had a really good session
Navigating Loneliness in Growth
Speaker 2.
Speaker 2I feel like this and you think they're the kind of shifts that I wasn't expecting . I was expecting to think , oh yeah , like this , feels free , and but I wasn't expecting to feel the shifts of , you know , genuine love over just myself and over just my relationship , and the excitement and continuing to push and the newfound drive every day , regardless of what it is or how hard it is . And , you know , finding that drive and finding that purpose and just continuing to build and knowing , more than anything , that my progression is entirely my own . It's . It's not now held to my mum more than anything . It's not held to any bosses , it's not held to anybody else out there , because anybody else is on their own journey , but I'm now held to my own progression about where I want to take my business and how I want to impact the world , and that , to me , is exciting . You know that is exciting and you can find that excitement .
Speaker 2You're not stuck in it , but definitely it was a big awakening , feeling that unsettlement again and knowing now that actually when I get comfortable , it's okay to be comfortable , but it's also really important to go .
Speaker 2Let's just get a little bit , let's just dip your toe into being uncomfortable and trying something new and pushing myself out of that and also being able to hold that space to calm down into that comfort zone again and just turn that tap on and off a little bit .
Speaker 2And that is something that I find really powerful to take into my clients that we can just turn that tap on just a little bit so they can feel that emotion and feel any kind of , you know , rage or without over flooding it , and we can turn that on , we can release it a little bit , we can , you know , and turn that off and just do that in a nice comfortable way that allows us to do it , like I say , without almost bursting . And that , to me , has been , you know , a consistent growth , and that's what I like now , that I feel like I'm growing every day rather than feeling stuck , is it is that growth and that that blossom and you know that seeing other people blossom it's like a big poppy flower field that just keeps popping up everywhere and it's gorgeous , I love it yeah , oh .
Speaker 1So , juicy , you know what you've mentioned . You mentioned a really important point here is sometimes , when you work on integrating and healing some theme in one area of your life , it might still pop up in other areas if it hasn't been fully acknowledged yet , and so , and especially with entrepreneurship , it tends to be a field that will really kind of like poke at your wounds if you haven't healed them yet yeah , you're not wrong , you're not .
Speaker 2And I think something I started to experience lately was the loneliness of it . Don't get me wrong , I'm happy on my own , but at the same time it was like a new found experience of loneliness . Because where you are , like you say entrepreneurship you can't suddenly keep saying yes to everybody . You have to start saying no , and that's been another thing of really reinforcing that . It's comfortable saying no now , because I'm not doing it from a point of malice , it's more from a point of you know what I need that time and that's okay to do that .
Speaker 2But one thing I found that your friends , they stop asking you to come and do things or you know they make new friendships and that's okay and you are so happy for them and , you know , proud of them for finding those new friendships . But at the same time it is very , very lonely and it's a new weird sensation of loneliness because it's like you're . You know that people are kind of there because they haven't gone and you haven't had arguments , they haven't just disappeared . But at the same time it's like you're , you are a little bit alone because they're not there to be who they used to be with you , they're not picking up the phone every day and they're not saying , do you want to go and do this next weekend ? And it is like a new sense of loneliness that I'm coming to terms with being okay with , but it is .
Speaker 1It is like you say it is finding things that , although they're they're healed in one area , the bear gets poked in another area yeah , and especially when it comes to those really core experiences that we had in our developmental years , it can take a few layers of the onion before you can really feel like it's been integrated into your being .
Speaker 2Yeah , and that's the thing like with childhood .
Speaker 2You know , I've spoken to people . They've gone . Yeah , well , I had a great childhood and when we break it down , it's not always from our parents that this stuff is , is formed it . You know , it can be from teachers , from other children and , like I say , although we might think someone's picked on us because we're silly , although we we think we've , like , say , established it , our mind is very good at going .
Speaker 2Well , here's a memory to make you think you kind of killed that off and you fixed that . Or I say , fix it , you've worked on it and healed it and allowed it to , to release . But I'm just going to keep this one in the back pocket for you , so when you , uh , really need something , I can bring that up and you know , I think that's always okay to allow that , to be there and and go , come on . Then come and sit with me like let's , let's welcome this in here , because the more you welcome them , I think and this is something that I've had to really sit with actually it's okay to welcome , because the more you welcome , the more your mind goes oh , actually , it's safe to show you this , it's all right to show you this and it becomes a lot easier to really
Navigating Post-Narcissistic Self-Discovery
Speaker 2sit with .
Speaker 2You know , and I think a really valuable question I started to ask myself was what am I missing ? You know , what am I ? And it allowed me to kind of think well , what am I missing here ? And that is in , like , if Harry's in a in a mood because he's had a bad day and it'd be very much , well , what am I missing ? Well , he's just had a bad day . He told me about this earlier and this , and that it's got nothing to do with me , and like , when I was feeling like I'm not good enough , it's like well , what am I missing here ?
Speaker 2You know is is that the truth and you know , or is it a misconception ? Is it someone else's belief that I'm carrying right now , or is it truly mine ? And that's the thing , because we get beliefs , other people's beliefs , projected onto us consistently , that it would be very difficult not to take them on board . You know , sometimes we can sit with that and go well , is this truly what I believe , or is it a belief that I've taken on from someone else and being able to sit with that and go well , no , that's not even mine .
Speaker 2I don't need this anymore and allowing to let that go has been really beneficial and , like saying , being able to even give that back to my clients and go . Well , you know that these things happen and we can't control them . Growing up , you know , we weren't told you have to do this and you have to do that in a form of knowing that it was going to affect our whole life and how we were walked . It was just how our parents knew how to look after us and we carried that on and it creates that intergenerational trauma , but it doesn't mean we have to carry it with us forever .
Speaker 1Absolutely , and that's the thing . You know , the things that we experienced growing up , you know we might create certain beliefs about them or us . Oftentimes there's this assumption that maybe it's our fault not recognizing back then that their reactions are projections of their stuff . And I mean , even like when we're kids , it's actually unsafe for us to think that our caregivers are maybe unbalanced or unstable , right , so we automatically assume it must be our fault if they're reacting . But yeah , this like understanding , now that you know the things that you assumed and you thought and you did and you saw in order to survive are not the same perspectives and perceptions that are going to help you to thrive oh , yeah , I love that .
Speaker 2It's that rhymes so nicely right , that's the thing what we learn as children and what we take on from , like you say , learning to survive doesn't serve us in the adult world anymore and it's being able to acknowledge that .
Speaker 2And , you know , some people got a natural gift for it and find it very , very easy . And , like you say , some people who who have put their parents on a pedestal because it wasn't safe to blame them , they , I must admit , do tend to find it a lot harder to acknowledge that . Or , you know , and this is something I found a lot like , people who had very aggressive parents find it very hard to kind of go back into that . Well , that's , that's a them opinion , not a me opinion , because they feel bad for it , they feel like that's wrong and it's being able to sit with that and once again go back to that tap and turn up the emotion to , to let that fear out and and then be able to go . Well , no , this isn't , this isn't me , this isn't who I want to be and this isn't what I want to carry and this isn't what's going to help me , like you say , thrive and be in this adult world yeah , absolutely gosh .
Speaker 1I'm loving this conversation me too .
Speaker 2Anything we've like attached to and how the brain works .
Speaker 1It's just a thrill , right oh my gosh , I have so many questions for you . I have a feeling that maybe we're gonna have to do another episode oh , I'd love that . Yeah , that would be an honor yeah , now here's a question for you about the client that is , you know , the most common or most ideal client that you like to work with . What stage would they be at on their journey where that would be the most optimal time for them to step in and work with you ?
Speaker 2For me it is very much someone who's just come out of that narcissistic or toxic kind of environment and they know that that relationship wasn't quite right . So they got a little bit of self-awareness , but they also know that this isn't where they want to be forever . They know that this is not their destiny and they have a want , a want to change more than a need to change . You know they really want to change , they want to improve , they want to understand and really sort of finally accept that it's about them and their growth and their self-love . And the only reason why I say that is because these are people that you can pour and pour and pour into and they will take it in a way that is so beneficial and like say , you see this major growth in someone and they all of a sudden don't feel like they're being held back , because they're starting to feel that , well , I walked away , actually I can be this whole new person . And then they start to get excited because they can . You know they , when they're there and they feel like they've lost their identity . Suddenly it's this excitement of actually , you know what ? I don't have an identity , I can be whoever I want to be now , and that is like amazing when they kind of have that recognition of like , wow , okay , I can be whoever I want to be . I don't have to live by his you know narrative , I don't have to live by my mothers or my fathers or my caregivers , I can live by the narrative that I want . And you know that is exciting to see someone transform like that . And you know they start to learn what boundaries are and understand their attachment and go from this place of wanting to give self-love and wanting to give self-worth but just not knowing how self-love and wanting to give self-worth but just not knowing how . And it's being able to facilitate that and say this is how we can do it for you , not , you know , because not one size fits all , but for you , this , this will work , and if this doesn't work , we'll try this .
Speaker 2And and knowing that they suddenly got this support and don't feel so alone , because the the one thing I really learned and saw in these kind of toxic relationships those that haven't experienced it can't hold that space of compassion and kindness . It's very much well , why haven't you left ? You should have left ages ago . And that just creates a sense of shame and that sense of anger and that guilt . And then what happens is and I experience this myself you close in into this ball and into this , this place of survival again , and then you feel like you don't have that evolving space to grow . And suddenly , when you've got someone that is a stranger , that's holding that space , I think there is more compassion and kindness because you can say whatever you feel , because essentially they don't know who you are , they don't know your story , so you're safe to say that because there is no judgment , and when I think you're speaking with someone who's been in that space as well , you don't feel so like , say , judged and fearful of it .
Speaker 1Oh that's beautiful if there's someone listening who fits that . Is there one word of wisdom or thought or insight that you could share for them to , to help them in some way ?
Speaker 2Yeah , I think the best that I could give is allow yourself to acknowledge how you feel . You know , allow yourself to acknowledge the feelings that are coming up and the thoughts that come with it , because if you can hold , start holding that space to yourself with kindness and I mean this with kindness and curiosity rather than anger and resentment you will start to allow yourself to relax into this state or come out of this state of survival . You know , and with this state of coming out , survival , you'll feel a lot of exhaustion , you'll feel a lot of tiredness . Just allow that to be there , because that is the first sign that actually you're starting to heal . You know , and allow yourself that compassion and drop this phase of I should be over this or I should be this and I should be further along , and just allow yourself to say you know what I'm doing better than what I did yesterday .
Speaker 2Or OK , today's a setback , but tomorrow will be better , but tomorrow will be better . Or you know , I'm going to allow myself to worry today because tomorrow will be better tomorrow . And just start allowing that kindness and compassion and know you're not alone . You're not alone on this journey . There are people like you , who have similar stories to you who understand you and you don't need to feel shame or guilt or anger towards yourself for staying because ultimately you were manipulated and you were conditioned and the feelings that you're experiencing now is a condition of what you've been through . You know you've been through enough trauma you're . It's down to you whether you carry that on now or you just cut it off like a cape and start to change that narrative for yourself . That's beautiful advice .
Speaker 1Thank you . So where can somebody who really resonates with what you're saying find you ?
Speaker 2So I am on Instagram as EJ Walsh , relationship coach . I'm also on Facebook as Emma Walsh or . I do have a website of um , wwwemmajwalshcom , and in there you'll be able to see my story . There is a free ebook to download as a resource , um , and we can also you know . If you feel that you download the ebook and you need my help further , we can also have a conversation about that .
Speaker 1Wonderful and I'll include all those links in the show notes so people can access them . This has been a juicy conversation and I feel like , like I mentioned , there's so much more to talk about , but I hope that this conversation , you know , for our listeners has sparked some insight and maybe helped them put some of their own puzzle pieces together , either when it comes to their relationship or making pivots in their career or finding purpose in your work . There was one thing that you've mentioned maybe I'll just throw this in because it is in the top of my mind up here . So you've mentioned about .
Speaker 1You know , this type of work can feel lonely . Let me know what you think about this concept . I find that , especially any work where you are putting yourself into a leadership position , where you are a cycle breaker or a change maker or a trailblazer in some unique and different way and you're showing this new path and a new way forward and change that , the further you go in your leadership , the more lonely it can tend to feel , because there's not as many people on that path versus maybe the path that you left behind . What are your thoughts on that ?
Speaker 2yeah , I love that idea of that concept 100% and I think it's so true because you're growing and evolving and those kind of thoughts and that kind of person no longer serves you .
Speaker 2And I do think you have to go through this phase of loneliness to then find you know they say your vibe attracts your tribe , and you will then attract people that are more on that vibe . So that will of course then encourage you and I think it's very much like you're stepping through one door into a room so you can do this work and out into another door so you're able to actually leave those things behind that no longer serve you . And I think the loneliness , as hard as it is , it's also good because you've not got the influence of other people as you do this work and you know , like I say , you are suddenly stepping out of that pain and that comfort and being able to just be comfortable with who you are as a person and , like I say , not have other people influencing or clouding your judgment or your thoughts or projecting their beliefs onto you . So it's important to embrace that loneliness and see it as an opportunity rather than a setback oh , I love that .
Speaker 1See it as an opportunity rather than a setback , so important yeah , and you know that's where as well .
Speaker 2I think , like I say , you'll then meet . You know , they say you're the average of the five people that you spend your time with . So I think a really valuable question to ask in those times of loneliness do you want to be the average of those people or are you ready to be the average of these new you know , this new potential tribe , and what is that going to offer you ? Over what your past , the you know where you sat in that pain and all that grief and that anger ? Is that the kind of place you want to go back into ? Or do you want to sit with this loneliness and wait to go to the other side , to the unknown , to the excitement and the thrills , and who knows who you'll meet and who knows where you're going to go ?
Speaker 2unlimited possibility yeah , you must have read my mind , oh , oh .
Speaker 1I love it . Yeah , I think that's a really wonderful place to maybe conclude of .
Unlimited Possibilities and Healing Ripple
Speaker 1The journey is of limitless possibility , and it's always up to us to decide if we're going to accept that and the challenges that come with it , because there's always going to be challenges in life . No matter what choice you make , including choosing to not do anything at all , there's always going to be challenges in life . No matter what choice you make , including choosing to not do anything at all , there's still going to be a challenge associated with that as well . I think our conversation today really I think both of us kind of you know we're on that side of you know what we see that unlimited possibility and we're willing to move through the challenges that come with it , to to see what happens as you continue on the journey , to continue to grow and evolve and follow your purpose , find that overflow and then be that leader that's going to help others do the same yeah , a hundred percent .
Speaker 2And you know , I think it comes back to that amazing ripple , the endless possibilities that you can create . Help someone else create their own endless possibilities , and it just continues and continues and we might not be able to completely stop . You know negative thoughts or narcissism or emotional abuse , but actually we can create that ripple effect in the world that starts to reduce it because people aren't passing it on to their children or their partners and so forth , and you know that that's an endless world of possibilities as well yeah , I recently saw a quote that said just as trauma can be passed on generationally , so can healing oh , I love that , love that , yeah , so true .
Speaker 1So so true , absolutely love that and I mean , I feel like you know , if this is the way that we're feeling , our soul is feeling called to follow , we can help to heal and change the world through these actions , through this ripple effect .
Speaker 2Yeah , 100% . And , like you just said , you know you can pass it on to your children , who then pass it on to their children , and it isn't just us as a single person , it goes on for generations and generations . And that , I think , is probably very high up there with how gorgeous this kind of work is and how fulfilling it is , because you know it's not just going to end with you and every person that comes to you and leaves it's not just going to end with them either , and it is exciting to know that and you know it is a thrill like a warm buzz . Yes , I love it .
Speaker 1Oh well , thank you so much for this conversation today , emma .
Speaker 2I'm so glad that you were here on the podcast for us to have this conversation and to share it with others no , thank you so , so much for having me and thank you so much for holding the space to allow me to tell my story , and you know it's been an honor , a true honor it's my pleasure and to the audience .
Speaker 1If you feel , uh , that you would like to check out emma and her work , you can go to the show notes and access the links there .