Breaking Free from Limiting Narratives: How Your Mind Creates Your Experience with Anita Čavrag (Part 3 of 3)

Welcome to Part 3 of my soul-stirring conversation with purpose coach Anita Čavrag. This one is my personal favourite.

In this final chapter of our three-part series, we explore the filters through which you experience reality and how they impact your sense of purpose, satisfaction, and what you believe is possible for your life and work.

This episode is a masterclass in reframing your internal dialogue, breaking free from inherited “shoulds,” and stepping into a new, empowered relationship with work and self.

If you’ve ever felt trapped by fear, doubt, or uncertainty about your next steps, this episode will help you soften those edges and begin to ask the powerful question: what if something more is possible?

Key Topics Discussed:

• How unconscious narratives and language shape your sense of purpose
• The power of “what if” as a tool for gentle transformation
• Reframing fear and anxiety through playful, curious exploration
• Recognizing the filters that limit possibility—and how to meet them with compassion
• The difference between superficial “positive thinking” and true paradigm shift
• Why transformation often begins with discomfort—but doesn’t have to stay there
• When to pause on strategic questions and focus on inner clarity
• Encouragement for those feeling stuck in the “in-between” of change

This episode wraps up an incredibly rich series that has offered deep insight into purpose, alignment, and inner truth. If you haven't listened to the first two parts of this interview, you can use the links below, or scroll back to episodes 26 and 27 on the Inner Purpose Podcast.

Resources & Links:

• Connect with Anita Čavrag – Website
• Follow Anita on Facebook
• Follow Anita on LinkedIn
• Part 1 of this interview: Why Success Feels Empty: Reclaiming Purpose at Work
• Part 2 of 3: Ignoring Your Calling: The Cost of Misalignment at Work and What to Do About It 

Don’t forget to rate, review, and share the podcast if you enjoyed this episode. It helps others discover the show and join the conversation. Until next

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome to Part Three of Anita's Series
• 5:35 Reality vs. Our Interpretation
• 9:47 Questioning Your Limiting Narratives
• 13:41 Becoming an Observer of Reality
• 18:35 Transforming Pain into Opportunity
• 23:43 Slow Down Before Strategic Questions
• 29:49 Closing Thoughts and Contact Information

Transcript

Michelle Dowker: 1:05

Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Inner Purpose Podcast. Today's episode is part three of a three-part series, and this one is my favorite. I had a wonderful and deep conversation with Anita Chavrag. Anita is a coach for high-achieving leaders and founders who've built impressive careers or businesses but they feel unfulfilled and sense it's time for a profound change, even if they're not sure what they truly want. She helps them reconnect with who they really are, get clear on what would actually light them up, and design work that aligns with their purpose and their true nature. Her approach blends a master's in psychology, nlp, existential coaching, a decade-long career in HR and a lifelong obsession with the human mind, plus her own lived experience of walking away from a prestigious but stifling path to follow her true calling. We had a lengthy and deep conversation that was rich with so much magic. I've decided to separate our conversation into three different podcast episodes so that you can take in the richness and depth of each one on your own time and then come back for another level of depth with each of these three podcast episodes. I will link each of them in the show notes so that you can continue to listen one after another as you choose.

Michelle Dowker: 2:41

The first two parts of this three-part series are linked in the show notes and you can go there if you want to listen to that first before you listen to this one. However, it's not necessary. In episode one we talked about purpose and meaning, what's the difference between purpose and passion and what are the things to consider about your work if it's not feeling purposeful right now. In the second of the three episodes, we talked about what happens if you don't actually follow your purpose. We talk about maybe some of the existential signs and even physical health signs that can occur when you're not actually following your purpose, when you're not actually understanding how you're designed or what optimal career is right for you, and, if you ignore those whispers, what that can turn into over time, especially if you are a highly sensitive or neurocomplex person.

Michelle Dowker: 3:42

And in today's episode we get deep into talking about reality. We talk about the filters of your unconscious mind and how they might be affecting how you're seeing your level of purpose, how you're understanding, meaning how you might be seeing the options that are on the table and what to consider so that you can align yourself to your most purposeful work and feel deeply satisfied while doing it. This part is my favorite and I can't wait for you to listen. So let's get started with part three of the interview. Here we pick up where we left off in part two. I hope that you enjoy.

Anita Čavrag: 4:30

Maybe one thing that you asked me earlier, like what is the one thing that we haven't talked about? I think it's really important to understand that everything that we think is basically a story we're telling ourselves. There's reality, and then there's our interpretation of reality, and our subjective experience happens inside of that interpretation, and that interpretation isn't entirely in our control. Like, we have inherited that narrative. You know, it's a social construct that we inherited the rules, the shoulds, the musts. All of that is part of our narrative, and it's the case of not being able to see the label from inside the jar. You don't perceive your narrative because you live it. It feels like the truth, right, and so it takes some elevation to get outside of that narrative, to see it for what it is, to ask some curious questions and challenge what you usually take for granted. Right, if you say something that sounds like the truth, maybe like ask a question, but who says, for example, who would hire me? Like I only worked in this company for the past 10 years? Who would hire me? Like, who says right, who says that nobody would hire you? Or if you say something like oh, people like me can never, these are really good signs that you're stuck in a certain limiting narrative, right. Always, never, everybody, no one, should, must, can't those are some of the words that come to my mind that indicate that this narrative is limiting.

Anita Čavrag: 6:17

I mean, we all have a narrative. It's impossible to not have a narrative, right? We all have a story, but the great thing is that we're not condemned to stay in the same narrative until the rest of our lives, and so a big part of the work I do personally and I think all coaches do in one way or another is expanding this narrative to include other things that are possible. Right, to expand our narrative about what is possible, to question things that we treat as truths. Right, and shake us out of our usual perspective, because when that happens, our relationship with our reality changes, our relationship with work changes, our relationship with ourself begins to change, and that's where we experience reality. It's determined by our relationship with the concepts, with the things that we experience, and so I think it's important to be a little bit skeptical when it comes to what we think is the truth and how the world works, and be open to question that Is that really so? And allow that a different reality is possible.

Michelle Dowker: 7:32

Makes me think about you know how Wayne Dyer said when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change.

Anita Čavrag: 7:38

Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I know that some people might take this as a form of self-manipulation, like, oh, I'm just going to change my perspective and suddenly everything's going to be great. Like that's not going to work. And I agree, it's not going to work, right, you can't. That's not how it works. It's not about deceiving yourself to start believing things that you secretly don't believe in. That's not how I look at it. It's about being open to the fact that one event can be told in many different ways and that you choose the way in which you look at the event and that, recognizing that you do have a filter. You're not seeing objective truth. Whatever we are experiencing is not the objective truth. It's going through a certain filter, and I think the crown of personal development is meeting that filter, getting to know that filter. What is my filter? For example? My filter is whatever new thing I try to do, my first thought is, oh, I can't do that. Oh, that's, I just have a can't do attitude. I mean, I'm aware of that. I have to work with that. I have to remind myself that I still I don't know how to do it. Yet I have to interfere with my narrative to add this new word yet which changes the whole meaning of that sentence, right?

Anita Čavrag: 9:09

So being aware of our own filters, the way that we skew our reality, the way that we distort reality, that I think is really, really important. Because as long as we treat everything, that every thought that we have, as the truth this is how it is then it's really hard to break away from the script, it's really hard to see new possibilities, right? Because then we are too attached to our worldview. The language is reveals a lot. I think it it pays attention. It's really important to pay attention to language. It's really useful to do that, to catch yourself saying certain words, because that really reveals what you truly think. And it's magnificent to me how just changing one word slightly can change your emotions in that very instance, like I can't do it versus I don't know how to do it, yet, my God, that's like a completely, completely different emotions just by changing that one part of the sentence.

Michelle Dowker: 10:19

Absolutely. There's so many things that come to mind from that. I mean, that's actually one thing I commonly you know this is something that comes even from my naturopathic doctor clinical years is when someone says the word should, you know, I always tell them when you should on yourself. It just makes a big mess and I suggest for them, if they catch themselves saying should, um, to see if they can replace that with I would like to, or I get to they you know I should be doing this.

Michelle Dowker: 10:53

If instead they say I would like to do this and then they realize you know what I actually wouldn't like to, then it gives you that opportunity to reevaluate, or if they realize that they would like to, then it changes the whole energy behind what they're saying.

Anita Čavrag: 11:11

Then it changes the whole energy behind what they're saying. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Do you have a background in NLP? Because that sounds like like an NLP intervention. Yeah, yeah, it's fantastic.

Michelle Dowker: 11:23

And that's the thing right With NLP. They talk about those, those filters in the unconscious mind, and most of those were set up a long time ago in our developmental years. Right, that's the thing is, we can shift them, we can get to know them and understand them. Like you've mentioned, I learned an equation that I that really stuck with me, and that is experience plus meaning equals belief. So you have an experience, you put meaning to it and it creates a belief through which, like a lens that you're looking through. And if you can change the meaning that you put to the experience, you can change the belief and the filter through which you're looking at it.

Anita Čavrag: 12:05

Oh, that's so powerful. Yeah, because you can't change the actual experience that happened, it's done. But you can. You can always. There's a great saying you can always choose a different past. I think that is that is what it tries to capture, right? You can put a different meaning to what already happened and then have a completely different relationship with that experience and a different belief.

Michelle Dowker: 12:31

Yeah, there's, you know, two other things and I think you probably know this too with an NLP background is you know you've got your unconscious mind and you've got your conscious mind and you know your unconscious mind is really ruling 95% of your thoughts, your behaviors, your actions. So, even if you consciously want something different, if that filter in your unconscious mind is still looking at things in a different way, that's going to be the thing that wins out every time. Yeah, right, even if you quote, unquote, know better, like you were saying earlier about. Well, you know, I just, I just need to think about this differently. If you're just doing that at the level of the conscious mind and your conscious thoughts, you know affirmations or whatever, then it's not always going to give you that long-term paradigm shift like you were mentioning. And the other thing about that is you know, even with your thoughts and what you're thinking and your judgments and what you're thinking about something. It kind of makes me think of Michael Singer's work.

Michelle Dowker: 13:37

I don't know if you know Michael Singer. No, I haven't heard of him. He wrote the Untethered Soul. He mentions you are not your thoughts, you're the one observing your thoughts. Yeah, yeah, right, instead of getting wrapped up in well, thinking that it's got to be this way, or your shoulds, or the inner critic and all of those things. You're not any of those things and that can be a challenge to take a step back and recognize you're just the one sitting and he turns at the seat of your soul just watching it all happen.

Anita Čavrag: 14:11

Yeah, terms of the seed of your soul, just watching it all happen. Yeah, the change that happens is when you're an observer of your reality. Right, you experience the interpretation of the reality. Right, you're the observer and the point is to become a more powerful observer. I think a very gentle way to do that kind of work with yourself that's absolutely doable and doesn't require any sort of affirmation or faking it until you're making it or something, is just asking yourself what if? Just opening that door of possibility that things might be different? You don't have to look at yourself in the mirror and say I'm beautiful, I can do whatever I want. Just saying things that you don't believe in is not going to make you believe them, right, but kind of opening the possibility that things might be different by gently just asking curious questions. What if it weren't true? What if it were possible? Just this, what if?

Anita Čavrag: 15:14

Oh, doing this is hard, I don't know. Starting a business is hard. What if it were fun? What if it were also really deeply fulfilling? How would it look like if it were a bit easier? And if it's hard, is that really a deal breaker?

Anita Čavrag: 15:34

What flavor of hard am I talking about here? Is it hard because it takes a long time? Is it hard because it's hard work? Is it hard because it's emotionally hard? What kind of hard? I mean, life is hard, okay, but what kind of hard. Just shaking them up a little bit with what if? With just playing with the possibilities, I think is a great and gentle way to start changing the meaning of whatever you're experiencing in the moment. So you're experiencing fear or anxiety of change, right, and just saying, okay, now this is not going to mean fear and anxiety, it's going to mean something else. It's not going to work like that forcefully, but just asking yourself, what, if it could be different? What, what would it look like? I think this childlike curiosity is can really go really far in helping us to to become a different observer of our own reality, of our experiences.

Michelle Dowker: 16:35

I love that. Yeah, I think those are really great. I know you're not into providing tips and tricks right, we both do the deeper work. However, I think those are really great insights to keep in mind for anyone really, and especially if you are on this path and you know you're in this place where you're feeling disillusioned and you're feeling like you know I'm successful. However, I'm feeling inside that there's something still missing. Yeah, there's something still more. Well, what if there is more?

Anita Čavrag: 17:09

Yeah, yeah, and we tend to perceive that moment as a very dramatic moment. I mean, I remember my own experience. It was really painful, it was dramatic, and I remember my coaching teacher. She said something like the bigger the drama, the bigger the opportunity, and that completely flipped my perspective. I started thinking about oh my God, what's on the other side of this? I'm really like deep in hell right now.

Anita Čavrag: 17:38

But when I get out, oh boy, when I get out, who knows what's on the other side, because it's always darkest before the dawn, and just thinking that transformation really usually is painful. It is hard to transform, to wake up, to shift your life around, to ask yourself these questions, but the reward on the other side is worth it. And it's hard to see that when you're inside. But I think everybody knows from experience that after you go through such hardship, through emotional turmoil, you do get outside stronger. So this isn't even something you need to believe, like sometimes people say, just believe you've lived this. Everybody has lived this experience. Just it was a different problem. Maybe All right, but everybody has this experience where you go through this emotional turmoil and you know it's an opportunity for something, some growth is waiting for you on the other side. A more authentic life is on the other side, and I think that's to me that at least was a really comforting thought.

Michelle Dowker: 18:50

I love that perspective right. The bigger the challenge, the bigger the growth and opportunity on the other side of it. I like to use the concept of challenges and going through something as the friction, that kind of like, is the thing that's required to create the polish on the other side.

Anita Čavrag: 19:09

Yeah, and you know, the bigger the friction, the the bigger bright, shiny results on the other side of it well, I love your metaphor, just so I'm like babbling here and you just say one metaphor and you explain it all in just five words well, that came from you saying all of that.

Michelle Dowker: 19:28

So good teamwork, right, and that's that's the thing as well. Nothing is ever static. Everything is always in flux and flow and changing. So you know, as with all things, this too shall change. So if you are in the middle of a challenge, you're feeling the turmoil, you're feeling all of the angst. You know it will pass and the more that you can, like you mentioned earlier, surrender to it with trust and faith of this process, rather than pushing it away or running away from it, because that's just going to elongate the process. Yeah, yeah, and that's the thing. I don't know where your ideal client is on the journey, if they're open and willing yet to take that journey and go within. If they are or they aren't, Do you have any insight or suggestion for them, encouragement where they're at right now and you know, to help them through addressing this point in their journey and moving through it?

Anita Čavrag: 20:37

Yeah, I think there's also a great saying when you're in hell, just keep walking. If you're walking through hell, just keep walking. I don't know who said that. Maybe Winston Churchill, he always had these really smart ones. Maybe Winston Churchill, he always had these really smart ones. I would also like to invite them to ask a. Really it's a crazy question to ask.

Anita Čavrag: 20:58

Right, you're in the middle of this process. It's horrible, you don't know what you should do, you're not happy, right? What if that could be fun? Like, what if this could be a fun process of coming home to yourself, exploring yourself again? Yeah, um, it doesn't mean that all the problems, all the pain is going to go away, but what if it could also be fun? What if it could be something you know, a playful activity? What if you could use this, uh, as an opportunity to experiment?

Anita Čavrag: 21:34

Right it's, it's a, it's a sort of an awakening. So, yeah, I'm just thinking, you know, does this even have to be that painful all the time and just be painful and nothing else but painful? I think it can also be exciting and you're kind of waking up from this sort of stupor and you're feeling alive again. And, yeah, it hurts, but at least you're alive, you're breathing, you're kicking, you're feeling alive again and, yeah, it hurts, but you're at least you're alive, you're breathing, you're, you're kicking, you're, you're striving for something else, right? That's more than most people can say, right? So, yeah, I think of this process is almost like a sacred process of awakening, becoming more autonomous and more aware and ultimately, it's a beautiful thing and more aware and ultimately it's a beautiful thing that which is happening.

Michelle Dowker: 22:31

I love that. It's so true, it's sacred, it's important, it's beautiful and once you're on the other side you know how worth it was. There's no going back. And, like you said, there's no going back and, like you said, it doesn't necessarily have to be all trudging through the muck. It can be a process with play and there can be enjoyment from it. And also what you've mentioned about you know, with that quote it kind of made me think about I think it's bison, the animal bison. If there's a storm approaching, they don't run away from the storm, they turn around and run into the storm because they know that that's the quickest way to get out the other side into good weather again, oh wow.

Anita Čavrag: 23:21

I didn't know that Right Instead of running away from it, face it head on. It's the quickest way to get through it. Yeah, there's no way of repressing this. At least I haven't seen anybody successfully. Just ignore this, the calling from the inside that you know, the calling that you hear, that you want to. You need to change something. It just keeps getting louder, it might even get dangerous, health wise, and it's yeah, it's just not going away. So, yeah, it makes sense to listen to this voice and ask it like what does it want? What does it need, need, where is this coming from? And surrender to that.

Anita Čavrag: 24:02

I'm not saying that people should just drop everything and pursue their passions and you, there is a time to be strategic about this. You know to make a plan and all of that. So people tend to rush to these strategic questions. But how do I make the change? Who's gonna hire me? How am I gonna do it? Um, or like, if they have a business and they're they want to scale, like, but how do I make the change? Who's going to hire me? How am I going to do it? Or like, if they have a business and they want to scale, but how am I going to do it? Like I need to hire a team. I don't want to have a team. It's too much, I don't know what I want. They get very strategic very soon. I think that's rushing through the process doesn't make you go through it faster. Right, there's a time for these questions, but those are not the first questions to ask. The how questions, the strategic questions, should come later. I think that there's deeper inner work to be done first before you can answer those.

Anita Čavrag: 24:59

I call them technical questions like who, how, what, what should I do? Sometimes they resolve themselves just naturally. Sometimes a lot of them lose relevance, like I had a client once whose concern was like but how am I going to? He was a sales professional, had a really, really good job, good salary, and he wanted to try something else, also in sales, but in something completely different, and he was worried about losing a part of his income. And just like through our work together it was just one session he realized that's not even an issue Like I have savings, I don't even need to spend all that much money. It was just a narrative that he was in.

Anita Čavrag: 25:43

In life you should always earn more and more and more. And who says why, what, for? So not even these money. Fears are always warranted. Sometimes they're exaggerated. So, yeah, a lot of these strategic technical questions kind of like lose relevance or their meaning changes or they become less important or you just find a way to resolve them. But if you start with those questions before you answered some deeper questions of like, who am I, what do I even want authentically beyond what I think I should want, then they are really hard to answer right, and that's why people stay stuck for years grappling with those questions and they can't find an answer. They don't know what to do, how to do it. But that's because they just didn't answer some more fundamental questions first. They just didn't answer some more fundamental questions first. Yeah, so slow down to speed up.

Michelle Dowker: 26:45

That's the rule here. I love that, right. Getting down to the deeper depths of things, right? Instead of just trying to answer the superficial. And when you address the things underneath the surface, then some of those other things just sort themselves out naturally as part of the process of addressing underneath the surface. Yeah, absolutely yeah, I love it. I love you. Know we're on the same wavelength. I love that.

Anita Čavrag: 27:17

Me too. This is really fun.

Michelle Dowker: 27:19

Now, if somebody wanted to learn more about you, where could they find you?

Anita Čavrag: 27:25

Okay, well, I'm on LinkedIn and I'm on Facebook. I post there every day A lot of posts about busting some myths that people usually have about what it means to be happy at work or how to find more fulfilling work and, yeah, just sharing a lot of insights that I discovered through my work with clients or from my personal experience or from my HR career. So, facebook or LinkedIn, my name is Anita, the last name is C-A-V-R-A-G, and I also have a website. It's a very basic website but, yeah, you can find more about my services there. It's fireflycareercom Wonderful.

Michelle Dowker: 28:10

And if you want to send me all of that information, I'll put it in the show notes so that they can link to it there. Yeah, absolutely, this has been a wonderful conversation.

Anita Čavrag: 28:23

Thank you, michelle. Thank you for having me. I was really thrilled with your questions really thought-provoking. We touched on some really really deep, deep questions and topics. Yeah, I feel really inspired right now and grateful that I had this chance to talk to you. Yeah, likewise feel really inspired right now and I'm grateful that I had this chance to talk to you. Yeah, likewise.

Michelle Dowker: 28:44

Yeah, so this wraps up part three of three of the wonderful conversation that I had with Anita Chavarag. If you haven't yet accessed the first two parts of this interview, you can access that through the link in the show notes, or you can go directly to episodes 26 and 27 in the Inner Purpose podcast and have a listen to that, and you can find all the information to learn more about Anita in the show notes. I've linked her website and how you can find her on social media. So I hope you enjoyed this thought-provoking conversation I had with Anita and, as always, thank you for being here. Until next time, take care.